In Conversation With Yasmin Ali

Here at Youth STEM Matters, we were lucky enough to get the chance to interview Yasmin Ali, a chartered chemical engineer who works in the energy sector in the UK. As an ambassador for engineering, she works to help educate the public on the industry through speaking at events and written work, which has been featured in the Huffington Post, The Independent, and the BBC to name a few. She is also passionate about encouraging young people into the field. In recognition of her work, she was awarded the Women’s Engineering Society Young Woman Engineer award in 2013 and has since continued to inspire younger generations to take up engineering through her work with schools and at career fairs and festivals. More recently, Yasmin was named one of the UK’s Top 50 Women in Engineering: Sustainability, also by the Women’s Engineering Society.  She is currently working as an Energy Innovation Project Manager in the UK Government’s Department for Business, Energy, and Industrial Strategy.

Yasmin Ali

With Youth STEM Matters volunteers Katie Molyneux and Deborah Smith - both aspiring chemical engineers themselves - leading the discussion, here’s what Yasmin had to say...

Deborah: Thank you so much for joining us today Yasmin! Let’s get started with (hopefully!) an easier question…What motivated you to become a chemical engineer and what journey did you take to become one?

Yasmin: I took A-levels in the sciences and maths, and I didn’t really know what I wanted to do. I felt as though I had to make a decision about the exact job that I wanted to do in the future, which was quite scary, and the only job that I fully understood was a doctor’s job because that’s what my parents do. I applied to do medicine but was unsuccessful; this was when I got a leaflet from the Institution of Chemical Engineers that explained chemical engineering careers. I didn’t fully understand the job from the leaflet, but it looked interesting, and I thought, ‘I’ll just go and do this and see what happens.’ Needless to say, it turned out to be quite a good decision.

In terms of the journey I took, I went to Nottingham University and earned a master’s degree in Chemical Engineering. I spent a year abroad in Malaysia during my degree. I would always recommend doing a year abroad; I found it really fun. I then discovered the energy sector through a work placement that I did, after which, I started a graduate scheme with E.ON (an energy and utility company). I left after seven years because I decided I wanted to do something that helped to solve climate change. Therefore, I joined the government and now work on energy innovation, meaning I look for solutions to help us combat climate change.

Katie: That sounds really good - especially that year in Malaysia! So, what do you do on a day-to-day basis as a chemical engineer?

Yasmin: My days are quite varied. In my current job, we run innovation competitions, so we have money from the government that we can spend on supporting companies that have technologies they want to develop. In this line of work, I could be thinking about designing future competitions, so looking at what kinds of technologies we need in the future and designing competitions around that. I might be doing project management work for projects that we’re running right now, so I could be on calls with companies in the UK and discussing their projects.

Aside from this, I spend a bit of my time doing stuff like this [interviews], because I think it’s very important to encourage people to get into engineering and to get into the energy sector.

The other jobs I’ve had have been quite different. I worked in the oil and gas sector, where I spent some time offshore, so one of my days could be on a helicopter going out to the middle of the sea to go and visit a gas platform. So yeah, pretty varied I would say.

Deborah: It sounds like you’ve done a lot! What inspired you to go into the energy sector, and has it always been a sector that has really interested you?

Yasmin: Before my degree, I didn’t know much about it, but during my third and fourth years of university, I did a work experience placement in a gas fire power station. That was the moment that I realised how power stations generate electricity. I struggle to fully understand things until I see them, so seeing the power station made me notice how important the sector is, and how I can help people by working in the energy sector. That’s what motivated me to start working in energy, which I have stayed in. Since it's such a big sector, there are so many different things you can do.

Katie: As a woman of colour, have you ever experienced discrimination in the workplace, especially because engineering is more of a male-dominated field? And what steps do you think need to be taken by leading companies who ensure gender equality in the engineering field?

Yasmin: I don’t think I’ve experienced any discrimination, but it can happen without you noticing it. I believe that I have had a positive experience so far, the people I work with have been really great teachers and mentors. However, I do notice the lack of diversity, it’s a bit better where I am now as there are more female engineers. However, there is still a lack of people of colour where I am now.

To help this, employers could show that being an engineer is doable; anyone can do it if they work hard enough. They could run work experience and try to get as many women as possible to take part. For big companies, I would encourage them to do the same; if you are a huge organisation, you have the resources to run work experience or send your employees out to spread the word about engineering. The Royal Academy of Engineering has a lot of resources that could be useful to companies about diversity in engineering and the different steps companies can take to help with that.

Deborah: That’s really encouraging to hear, especially as someone who is hoping to enter the field as well. The next question I’d like to ask is how do you solve challenges in your work that are seemingly impossible to solve?

Yasmin: I break it down into smaller bits, which is how the government approaches challenges, such as climate change. We gather emissions statistics, then look at where the emissions come from, which helps us focus on the area that needs the most work, which, in this case, is the transport industry. It also helps to acknowledge the fact that there are other people available to help you. You don’t have to do everything by yourself.

When facing a particularly challenging problem, sometimes it’s good to step away from it. Your brain works on problems in the background without you even realising it.

Deborah: What do you think the future of chemical engineering will look like, and how do you think advances in technology will change the field?

Yasmin: We're going through quite an important transition right now where we’re trying to move away from fossil fuels (e.g. oil and gas) which are traditionally big employers of chemical engineers. Therefore, going forward as those sectors change, chemical engineers will likely have different jobs to those they had 20 or 30 years ago.

The spectrum of jobs available is also expanding. I meet chemical engineers now who work in all kinds of interesting areas: there are lots in pharmaceuticals, so as the medical field changes, those jobs will shift as well. There are people working in the food manufacturing sector, so as our diets and eating habits change, so will the positions available here. Some chemical engineers are even researching lab-grown meat, which is quite fascinating. There's a whole range of advancements in terms of digitalisation, so for future chemical engineers, I'd recommend learning to code.

Katie: What advice would you give to a young person thinking of going into the chemical engineering field, especially a young woman?

Yasmin: I'd advise people to do their research beforehand and talk to chemical engineers to find out what it's like. I would recommend the field; since it's so diverse, even if you figure out it’s not for you after doing your degree, there are other jobs you can go into afterwards as it’s quite a sought after qualification. Many chemical engineers go and work in the finance sector.

I found it really useful to do work placements in the summer while I was in university to narrow down the field that piqued my interest. I did a placement in the energy sector; I didn't get to do a year in the industry, but the people I've spoken to found it really helpful.  

Deborah: This one’s a bit more of a personal question, but I was watching one of your previous interviews and you mentioned that you are originally from Baghdad, and that when you came to the UK, you were surprised about how reliable the energy is here. I was wondering if you would you ever consider working in countries with poor energy provision like Iraq?

Yasmin: I’ve thought about this a lot actually…I think I would like to, but the situation in Iraq right now is quite unstable so it would be a big risk to go. However, it's something that I would possibly like to do in the future once things have calmed down a little bit. I only joined the government just under two years ago, but maybe if I continue working in the government then something I'd look into doing would be the international side of the energy sector and see if I can contribute more in that way.

Katie: Our next few questions are mostly focusing in on climate change…What effects would you say that your current work has on combating climate change?

Yasmin: To combat climate change, we need to develop technological solutions. Some exist already, some don’t, and some need to be improved. The area that I work in takes existing technology that isn’t commercial yet and gives them funding and support to get them to that commercial state so that they can be viable businesses and combat climate change. For example, one of the competitions that I’m involved with is called the ‘Industrial Energy Efficiency Accelerator’. This takes energy efficiency technologies and trials them in actual industries to prove that they work. Thus, the companies that produce the technology can show real-life examples of how it has functioned. To answer the question, I think we have an impact by supporting potential technologies.

I think energy efficiency is really important because we need to reduce the amount of energy that we use before we start installing loads and loads of actual wind farms or other sources of energy.

My main work is on hydrogen. We use a lot of natural gas, especially in the UK. When we use it, we produce carbon dioxide, so one emerging alternative is to use hydrogen. When you burn hydrogen, no carbon dioxide is emitted. However, we still have to obtain the hydrogen in a green way. 

Deborah: What could we do as individuals to help fight climate change and reduce our carbon footprint on the world?

Yasmin: The majority of emissions come from transport, so the biggest impact that we can have is to think about our transport emissions and switch to walking, cycling, and trying to fly less. It would also help to transition to electrical or hydrogen vehicles, and hopefully to self-driving cars once they’re fully developed. You could also do things like car-sharing.

Aside from the transport industry, you could try to reduce your waste. For example, try not to participate in the fast-fashion industry, adopt a diet with less meat, since, in the UK, 10% of our emissions come from agriculture and the majority of that is from ruminant animals like cows and sheep. Spreading information to older generations and keeping up to date on new developments is also useful.

Katie: As a chemical engineer, do you think that it’s possible to reach net-zero emissions by 2050? How do you think we should go about achieving this while also keeping our economy stable?

Yasmin: I’m hopeful that we can reach net-zero, but it’s not going to be an easy journey. We need to reach net-zero emissions as a globe, not just as a country. If countries are determined to just get themselves to net-zero emissions, they could offshore their emissions. For example, in the UK some of our emissions come from the production of steel and cement, so if the UK offshores that – as in stops producing those products here and buys them in from elsewhere - those emissions wouldn’t be counted in the UK. On paper, it would look like the UK has fewer emissions, when, in reality, they’re just being emitted elsewhere. We have to be really careful of that and find solutions as a globe rather than individual countries because this is a global problem and borders don’t stop the emissions from going somewhere else. 

Deborah: That’s really interesting, and here at Youth STEM 2030, we’re really trying to think about these topics on a global scale as we’re a global organisation. Our next question is: what type of renewable energy do you think is the best and the most efficient?

Yasmin: I get asked this question a lot, but there isn’t one that’s ‘the best’. We talk a lot about having an ‘energy mix’ because you don’t want to rely on just one energy source. The UK is pretty well placed to exploit offshore wind power, because it’s an island, and it is quite good at doing offshore wind now. As we develop floating offshore wind turbines, we can go further out to sea. Solar panels are getting more efficient and improving so they can even work quite well in places with lower levels of sunshine. Nuclear and tidal power are other sources to consider. However, it all comes down to cost: it can be quite expensive to have a machine that must survive in harsh conditions (e.g. tidal), whilst having a wind turbine is a bit more manageable.  

Katie: Do you think the UK is investing in the right types of energy? Are there any other countries that you think are dealing with this problem better that we should model our energy system on?

Yasmin: I think the UK is doing pretty well in terms of electricity generation. We are cutting down on all of our coal-powered fire stations and renewable energy is being harnessed more. However, we need to combat heating, which is difficult considering in the UK we have around 26 million homes with gas boilers. To do this, we need to change the heating systems for many people without increasing the cost hugely and disturbing their homes and their lives.

In terms of other countries, it’s difficult to compare because each country has different natural resources. Norway is doing a great job because they have lots of hydropower they can harness, and they have invested in that. But, it really depends on where you are, for example, if you are in Australia or California where it’s quite sunny, then having lots of solar power is a really good option.

Deborah: It was really interesting to hear your thoughts on that one - I think it’s really important that we look at what’s being done in other countries so we can model their progress and make more improvements. This is more of a topical question, but how has the production and consumption of energy changed over the last few months during the COVID-19 pandemic?

Yasmin: Electricity and energy consumption has definitely decreased because transport has decreased massively. Air quality has also improved since there’s been less flying, which has been generally quite positive for the environment. Flying is already going back up; I see more cars on the road, and I’m sure energy demand will pick back up as life returns to normal. However, there is a lot of talk about how we maintain some of the positive changes. Overall, energy/electricity consumption has gone down, but it’s probably going to go back up again. In terms of energy generation, coal-fired power stations haven’t been run at all, or very little, which is quite good.  

Katie: I’d be keen to find out, if you didn’t work in the energy sector, are there any other sectors you’d be interested in or might potentially go into in the future?

Yasmin: I’m kind of interested in everything, making it hard to choose. I think that working in the food sector could be fun; the idea of working in a chocolate factory sounds quite interesting! I’m also interested in recycling and waste disposal, especially electronic waste. As we buy more and more devices that we wind up throwing away, we create waste that contains precious metals and plastics. Therefore these devices should be recycled not wasted, but I don’t think we have the systems in place to do that yet. Outside of engineering, I do a lot of writing, which is something that I will continue to do.

Katie: And would you ever consider doing a Ph.D.?

Yasmin: I didn’t think about doing one when I was working at E.ON because everyone I worked with had just come from a degree or an apprenticeship. However, after joining the government, I feel outnumbered because I’m one of the few people without a Ph.D. Yet, I do have the industrial experience, which is something that they don’t.

I wouldn’t do a Ph.D. right now, but I think at some point I might do some kind of further education. I’m interested in the economics and business behind energy, so I might learn more about that. However, I’d rather learn things on the job because I find that easier.

Katie: That’s the end of all our planned questions, but does anyone else on the call have anything they’d like to ask?

Lucy: This is more of a personal question, but is there any specific person in your career, from school onwards, that has particularly inspired you or has been a mentor figure to you in your personal and professional development?

Yasmin: Apart from family, I can’t think of anyone from school that has stayed with me until now, but there have been people along the way. I had a physics teacher at school that taught us things that were beyond the specification, which made the A-Level exams seem really easy. There have been other people that I’ve met at work who have given me advice along the way. There’s also a technician named John, who I met back in 2011, who is a really nice person that I’ve remained friends with. It doesn’t have to be professional engineers or bosses who inspire you, I'm inspired by people who are nice, kind, and have values that align with mine.

Dimple: You mentioned earlier how you really enjoy writing, and I think it’s really inspiring that in addition to being a professional engineer, you also take the time to engage the public through writing, audio and radio formats. Do you have any insights that you’ve gained from interacting with the public on how to best share your passion for science with others?

Yasmin: People have a short attention span, so you have to communicate things in ways that are relevant to them. You always have to put yourself in the other person’s shoes and think: what are they trying to get out of this? How can I tell them what I want to tell them in a way that’s going to make them listen? A couple of years ago, I did an activity at the Science Museum where I made ice cream with liquid nitrogen. I had the busiest stand because all of the kids wanted the ice cream and this gave me a chance to mention engineering.

Mhairi: I’d be interested to find out what you like to do in your free time?

Yasmin: I like to write, but I also spend time going to gigs, meeting my friends, going to restaurants, watching movies, and watching TV. I don’t have any secret hobbies. I do a bit of exercise and cycling; I also like to travel.

Adam: I’ve got one last question…What tips would you give to someone who’s applying to companies and institutions to gain industrial and research experience during university who may not have a lot of experience in the industry when applying?

Yasmin: I’d advise people to use the people that they already know. If you’ve got professors or lecturers that are doing research, you could ask them for work experience, which puts you in a better position when applying for an industrial placement. If you have a part-time job, even if it’s not related to the industry, it shows an employer that you’re a responsible adult. Find companies or organisations that you think are doing interesting things and get in touch with them. You can apply for the official work placements and/or find your own way into summer placements.